Today a POMO friend of mine told me that all of the articles which mentioned Tony Morris and all of the video talks of Tony Morris are no longer on the WT's website. My friend also told me that a group photo of governing body members which had previously shown Tony no longer shows him in the photo. Is that information from my friend correct? The last time I checked the WT's website I saw working links to an article about his life story and to videos of some of his talks.
Disillusioned JW
JoinedPosts by Disillusioned JW
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773
Breaking News: Anthony Morris III no longer serving on the Governing Body
by WingCommander inthis has been announced on the jw's official website, in the "jw news" section.
this is not a joke.
anthony moron da turd is out as a gluttonous body member!
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Disillusioned JW
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How to send Memorial greetings?
by CuriousAboutJW ini have a friend who is a witness, and i wanted to send them a message on tuesday, but i'm not entirely sure what to say.
"happy memorial" doesn't seem quite right.
what are some appropriate greetings to send on the day of the memorial of jesus christ?.
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Disillusioned JW
See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quartodecimanism which says in part the following. "Quartodecimanism (from the Vulgate Latin quarta decima in Leviticus 23:5,[1] meaning fourteenth) is the name given to the practice of celebrating the death of Christ on the day of Passover on the 14th of Nisan according to the biblical dating, being on whatever day of the week. The Quartodeciman controversy in the Church was over the question of celebrating Easter on the first day of the week, Sunday, or at the same time as the sacrifice of the Passover lamb.[2] "
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How to send Memorial greetings?
by CuriousAboutJW ini have a friend who is a witness, and i wanted to send them a message on tuesday, but i'm not entirely sure what to say.
"happy memorial" doesn't seem quite right.
what are some appropriate greetings to send on the day of the memorial of jesus christ?.
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Disillusioned JW
CuriousAboutJW, the Witnesses 'observe' the Memorial on the Jewish holiday of Passover (or of the the Passover Seeder?) on the Nisan 14th date of the Jewish religious lunar calendar, and as a result it does not fall on the same weekday each year. The early Jewish Christians (and some other Christians for at least a few centuries) also observed it on that day of the Jewish religious calendar. Other Christians chose to distance themselves from Judaism by a greater extent by observing it on what is called Good Friday.
According to the gospels Jesus instituted the observance on the Jewish Passover day of Nisan 14th (except that some scholars say that according to at least one gospel account the date was on Nisan 15th). In the USA the date of the WT's Memorial event typically is on the same day that USA calendars say the Jewish holiday of Passover is on.
Since the majority of JW don't partake of the emblems, the WT uses the word "observe" in regards to the event in the sense of "see" instead of the in the sense of "do". Most JWs don't do what Jesus said to do in regards to the event, namely to partake of the emblems (to drink the "fruit of the vine" and eat the unleavened bread). Instead they merely see the emblems (and hear a talk about them) and pass them onto another JW.
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disfellowshipped for having a personal opinion based on WT
by Leslie inin 2008 i was baptized into the truth after leaving a trinitarian faith.
during my eight years as a jehovah’s witness, i strived to keep the standards set by the bible, wt and the faithfull and discrete slave.
but unfortunately, the congregational elders from the kingdom hall i attended were not keeping to jehovah’s standards, hence, wrote my letter of resignation.
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Disillusioned JW
Leslie, since you officially resigned, you officially left the religion. Since you officially quit the religion and since you have not been reinstated your status is disassociated instead of disfellowshipped. Since you gave the elders the impression that you are now an apostate you are now disassociated person who according to the elders and to the WT is also now also an apostate. It appears to me you are not a disfellowshipped apostate, but rather a disassociated apostate according to the WT. Since you are considered an apostate it will be much harder for you to become reinstated.
I notice you quoted the following words. "If one obstinately is speaking about or deliberately spreading false teachings this may be or may lead to apostasy. If there is no response after a first and second admonition, a judiciary committee be formed”. My understanding is that that policy pertains to people who are still JW (ones who are neither disassociated or disfellowshipped) who are in danger of becoming disfellowshipped (by way of a judiciary committee). I thus think the 'three strikes' policy stated above does not apply to disassociated people (nor disfellowshipped people) who are trying to get reinstated.
Regarding Michael the Archangel, my understanding is that the WT teaches (and has taught for many decades) that Jesus was Michael the Archangel prior to being conceived as a human in the womb of Mary, but while not he was human. And, that the WT teaches that after ascending into heaven (and perhaps staring with the moment of his resurrection) he became Michael the Archangel again. In other words, I think the WT teaches that Jesus was and is Michael the Archangel only during the time that Jesus was a spirit being, instead of a human being. The WT teaches that Jesus was never at the same time both a human being and a spirit being. For the WT that is a major teaching, and thus according to the WT tells others that you disagree with it means (according to the WT) that you are an apostate. Since you have the view the view that the F.A.D.S. are "the ones that need to be admonished and corrected and not" you, then to the F.A.D.S. (even if your view is correct) you can not be reinstated (if ever) until after you abandon that view.
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773
Breaking News: Anthony Morris III no longer serving on the Governing Body
by WingCommander inthis has been announced on the jw's official website, in the "jw news" section.
this is not a joke.
anthony moron da turd is out as a gluttonous body member!
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Disillusioned JW
vienne, Raymond Franz wrote that the Insight book is a minor revision of the Aid book. His long article about Bible chronology is in the Insight book (at least in the First Edition; I have the hardcover First Edition), but with a different chart and with small changes to the text. The WT's website now even has the Aid book available for reading online. vienne, please list some specific articles which are in the Aid book but not in the Insight book. Before I accept the claim that Franz's Aid book articles are not in the Insight book, I must see specific examples of such.
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Some thoughts on the message of doom
by JeffT inone of the recent threads on the talk about the hailstone message got me to thinking.
the problem with putting out a message like that is what to do when nothing happens.
i have to think that somebody will be asking that question.
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Disillusioned JW
Paragraph 8 of page 154 of the First Edition of the You Can Live Forever in Paradise on Earth book (copyright 1982) says the following. "Which generation did Jesus mean? He meant the generation of people who were living in 1914. Those persons yet remaining of that generation are now very old. However, some of them will still be alive to see the end of this wicked system. So of this we can be certain: Shortly now there will be a sudden end to all wickedness and wicked people at Armageddon." That quote is from personal copy of the book. I also saw those words in a copy of the book at the store I was at yesterday (but I noticed that the book had one illustration different from my copy; the one I saw at the store had a picture [of a goat's head?] on a nightstand [on page 244?]; that illustration also had a black man in it, unlike the one in my book). I was baptized before that book came out (I had studied the Truth book).
By the way, today I noticed that the concordance (index of Bible words) in the 2013 NWT is about only one fourth of the number of pages of the 1984 NWT regular edition. That is unfortunate, but the 2013 edition does include a "Glossary of Bible Terms".
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What Will JW's Do If They Find Themselves Still Conscious after Death?
by Sea Breeze inwe all know that despite many scriptures to the contrary, jw's believe that when they die, their consciousness will cease.
my question is this: what will be the likely reaction of jw's if they find themselves conscious after death?.
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Disillusioned JW
According to the WT the forbidden fruit was not poisonous and that if Adam and Eve had remained faithful then God likely eventually would have left them that fruit.
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Some thoughts on the message of doom
by JeffT inone of the recent threads on the talk about the hailstone message got me to thinking.
the problem with putting out a message like that is what to do when nothing happens.
i have to think that somebody will be asking that question.
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Disillusioned JW
Perhaps some think that God, an angel, or some other spirit directed matters to cause me to find and obtain the books.
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49
Some thoughts on the message of doom
by JeffT inone of the recent threads on the talk about the hailstone message got me to thinking.
the problem with putting out a message like that is what to do when nothing happens.
i have to think that somebody will be asking that question.
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Disillusioned JW
JeffT I notice that you wrote that the WT taught the "... final war between Good and Evil would take place in 1975." Do you mean that was stated in WT literature? If so, please state the specific sources so I can read them. Or, was it stated only vocally, such as in talks in JW conventions and JW assemblies, and in special talks in the kingdom halls?
Interestingly while at a thrift store I found Awake! bound volumes for the years of 1966, 1968, and 1969. In one of those volumes I noticed an article which practically explicitly said the end would come in 1975. I think that is the most explicit statement I've seen in WT about 1975 being the year of the end. I think I saw it in the volume for 1966 (but I don't know which article it is in). An article in the volume for the year 1968 (or 1969?) was somewhat less explicit, but it was still very bold about 1975. I already had at home Awake! volumes for those years (but while at the store I was sure I had them) and continue to have them, but for some reason the content of the volumes that I found at the store didn't look familiar to me (except maybe for one article). I thus bought those specific volumes I found at the store.
Fisherman, I noticed you stated that the angels direct the preaching work and that you mentioned belief in the power of prayer, and I understand why you believe such. I am also aware of what is called "New Thought" and it's idea of "The Law of Attraction". In a way it is a similar idea to prayer. That so-called law is something I wonder about because of certain of experiences I have. The following recent example illustrates such.
From last Thursday through last Friday I was aware that I have the strong desire to obtain a copy of multiple WT books which I used to own. Namely, Babylon The Great Has Fallen, Then Is Finished the Mystery of God (which is not available on WT Library CD and not on the Wt's JW website), The Nations Shall Know That I Am Jehovah, Paradise Restored To Mankind by Theocracy, and The Harp of God. Besides those 5 specific books, in wanted to obtain multiple books by Rutherford (beside The Harp of God"). I wanted to obtain the 5 specific books because I have come to miss them and find it interesting to read certain things in them (including abandoned ideas in them which I think are strange, including ones I could quote on this site to try to get JWs to question their religion; but also ideas which make sense to me and are informative). Another reason why I wanted those books, and especially also the books by Rutherford, is because some people on this site say that the WT urged JWs to part with old WT books so that the WT can hide the WT's past flawed statements from people. Supposedly the WT (including working through elders) wants the books to be rounded up so they can be destroyed, in order to keep believing JWs from reading them. I don't want the WT to have that power and I don't want all of those old WT books (which in my mind expose flawed past beliefs of the WT) to be destroyed (while the WT continues to exist). Also, a few days ago I started wanting a copy of the 2013 NWT 'silver sword' edition. I thus I used the concept of 'the Law of Attraction" to bring those books to the thrift store I visit on occasion, so I could buy them there cheaply (even though I get a free band new one by entering a kingdom hall).
I visualized in my mind the books I wanted to find at the store in a future visit. I also waited a few days before going to the store, in order to give the universe time to arrange people to bring their unwanted copies of those books to the store and for the store to get them ready for sale in the shopping area. Last Saturday (yesterday) early in the day I obtained a strong urge to go to that store to see if the books were there (or arrive there later that day). I had a strong feeling that I needed to get to the store early that morning, for I felt (intuitively) there was a high likelihood the books would be there. Past experiences with me wanting to find specific books (and also electronics) at the store, is that when I had such a strong feeling that I must go to the store to find such, about 50% or 33% of the time the specific hard to find items I wanted were there! I thus went to the store.
At that store hundreds of books are often brought out to the sale area during the day but rarely any WT books by Rutherford). I arrived about when the store opened but no books were present. I later left to get food to eat. When I returned books were present including old WT books including the bound volumes I mentioned. But I didn't see any of the books I wanted, except for a very good condition copy of the 2013 NWT 'silver sword' (which was left in an abandoned shopping cart). I later put that Bible in my cart. When I had arrived (after getting food) the books in the shopping area were in the process of being removed from the shopping area, to be replaced with other items. I wondered if the old books I had wanted were buried under the other books which were being taking away, before I could search thoroughly for find them. I decided to wait to see if my books would be brought out later. Later many more books were brought out - including 4 of the 5 remaining specific books I wanted, plus the following books by Rutherford: Creation, Preparation, and Volume 2 of Vindication! I was astounded! I placed all of those books in my cart. There were also "You May Survive Armageddon into God's New World" and "Your Name Be Sanctified". I also put those books in my cart. There was also the 1975 Yearbook of Jehovah's Witnesses and I put it in my cart (since it has a history of the WT organization and has a good resale price online), even though I own the one I obtained from my former kingdom hall in 1975. There were also a number of other old WT books (mostly ones which I already own, plus some Watchtower bound volumes which I used to own) which I did not put in my cart for purchasing.
But I still hadn't found the Then Is Finished the Mystery of God book - one of the specific books I really wanted. I remained at the store for hours, all the way to closing time! I was determined to wait to see if more books would be brought and to see if any of those were ones I wanted. More books were later brought out - including the Then Is Finished the Mystery of God book! Wow! I put it in my cart.
Another book I found was the book called The Science of Getting Rich, which is a New Thought book (including the idea of the Law of Attraction) by Wattles. That copy was two books in one, consisting of the Original Text and of the Updated Version which is "Revised For the 21st Century". I thought that it's presence there in the store that day along with the WT books which found as a result of using the Law of Attraction was a sign that I should buy that book. I thus put in my cart.
I also found and added to my cart the following books, My Inventions and other Writings & Lectures (by Nikola Tesla), an autobiography by Albert Einstein, a biography by Isaacson about Einstein, Secrets for Profiting in Bull and Bear Markets (by Stan Weinstein), and a DVD of Al Gore's documentary called "An Inconvenient Truth".
During the last hour that the store was open there was a very long checkout line. At one point in that line while I was standing near some of the books I noticed one Rutherford book which I hadn't seen earlier that day in the store (a shopper probably removed it from his/her cart). It is the book called Deliverance! and I put it in my cart even though I already a copy of that book at my home.
I purchased each of the above mentioned books which put into my cart.
It are experiences of mine like that mentioned above which make wonder if the Law of Attraction is true. To me, from an atheistic naturalist point of view it can only be true if everyone (including plants and nonhuman animals) and everything in the universe is connected together in some way as one whole. Perhaps quantum entanglement and the fabric of the universe together are such a connection. The idea is also that the universe is one. I have been thinking of that concept off and on for several years. Soon after I brought home the book by Wattles I noticed that it's Preface by Wattles says the following.
"The monistic theory of the universe, the theory that One is All and that All is One; that one Substance manifests itself as the seeming many elements of the material world, is of Hindu origin and has been gradually winning its way into the thought of the western world for two hundred years." [Note: the book was first published in 1910.] That agrees with my idea of the naturalistic explanation I stated in the prior paragraph. However, I already have been owning for years another edition of Wattles' book (and other books about the Law of Attraction and The Secret) and thus I had read that idea before, but I had forgotten it was a part of Wattles' idea.
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Some thoughts on the message of doom
by JeffT inone of the recent threads on the talk about the hailstone message got me to thinking.
the problem with putting out a message like that is what to do when nothing happens.
i have to think that somebody will be asking that question.
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Disillusioned JW
Correction: In my prior post, by "... those on side of the street ..." I meant "... those on one side of the street ...".